Is PolitiFact.com afraid to review the biggest untruth in Virginia Politics?

Actually, I'd say the biggest of the Big Lies (0.00 / 0)

PolitiFact hasn't fact checked is Bob McDonnell's repeated, false assertions about his "balancing the budget," "creating jobs," etc.  Yeah, if you count raiding the retirement system, taking massive federal stimulus money, borrowing heavily, and bribing corporations to come here in exchange for...nothing, basically. Fact check THAT!!!

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by: lowkell @ Tue May 31, 2011 at 13:36:06 PM UTC

And if they did... (0.00 / 0)

would it be publicized in the media so the voters would know? Would the Democrats then have the intestinal fortitude to tell it like it is?

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by: Teddy Goodson @ Tue May 31, 2011 at 14:05:03 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Was Virginia specifically discussed (0.00 / 0)

in the Gates-funded study?  

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by: listlady @ Tue May 31, 2011 at 16:53:32 PM UTC

It would not matter if it were. (0.00 / 0)

Gates should be irrelevant.  

There's nothing in the middle of the road except yellow stripes and dead armadillos (Jim Hightower). PS I'm on Twitter here.

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by: KathyinBlacksburg @ Tue May 31, 2011 at 19:13:19 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Frustrating.... (0.00 / 0)

Ok, I think this is the fourth time THIS WEEK I've made this point on various blogs -- there is no such thing as a "Virginia high school diploma."  There are, on the other hand, hundreds of thousands of students who get diplomas.

Many of those students will be "ready for the rigors of a post-secondary education" and many of those students will not be "college ready."  And this isn't the end of the world, because NOT ALL STUDENTS NEED TO GO TO COLLEGE!!!  I find the claim on the VA website as obnoxious as the Gates Foundations "finding."

We have spent millions of dollars to "reform" education to push our students into college.  It's one of those ideas that always sounds good to adults (most of whom are college educated, after all) but not one that translates very well into the real world.  There are lots of reasons for this, which are complicated, messy and frustrating, but c'mon people -- the quest for the one best way from the top down is just as elusive as the Holy Grail!

I really wish we would stop with the one-size-fits-all answer to education and realize that we are educating PEOPLE who come in all different types when it comes to abilities, academics, maturation rates, and creativity.  But you know what?   That's going to take money in the classroom, in the counselor's office, and time and investment in the student himself.  Why bother with that messy, complicated stuff when we could fund more studies and hire people to do PR?

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by: GretchenLaskas @ Tue May 31, 2011 at 17:40:42 PM UTC

On this topic, did you see this? (0.00 / 0)

Watch the full episode. See more PBS NewsHour.

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by: lowkell @ Tue May 31, 2011 at 17:59:58 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Thanks! (0.00 / 0)

I'm so sympathetic to recent college grads -- my husband and I both graduated in the early 1990's recession, and I know personally how frustrating it is to want to work (even work that isn't necessarily fulfilling) and being unable to find anything.  

And I'm seriously concerned about the number of students that we send off to college who don't go on to graduate.  They walk away with debt and no diploma -- worst of both worlds.  For some of them, yes, preparing them better is the answer.  But for others, I truly believe we are failing them at a more fundamental level but not providing them with options.

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by: GretchenLaskas @ Tue May 31, 2011 at 20:33:00 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Gretchen, (0.00 / 0)

You make a good point.  Not everyone is prepared to attend college.  For a substantial minority of high school graduates, there is little benefit to anyone, least of all the students caught up in the pressure of  false expectations. It is so wasteful of their and their parents hard earned money.  But with the loss of much of our manufacturing base, many view college as the only means of good jobs and advancement. I think the first thing that needs to happen is for there to be more incentives to restore our manufacturing base at pre-offshoring wages (not wages reduced by 67% of their previos level, as one vacuum cleaner mfgr did).  Then we can focus upon strong voc-ed and technical training, outside the for-profit companies. Meanwhile, the feds and the states should ride herd on the for-profits which scam students with no chance to graduate and pay back their loans.

There's nothing in the middle of the road except yellow stripes and dead armadillos (Jim Hightower). PS I'm on Twitter here.

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by: KathyinBlacksburg @ Tue May 31, 2011 at 22:04:10 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

This is important: (0.00 / 0)

Meanwhile, the feds and the states should ride herd on the for-profits which scam students with no chance to graduate and pay back their loans.

And I agree with it absolutely.  And we also need to quite pretending (at least at the public school level) that sending our students off to college where they won't graduate (but will likely take out loans) is not the end of our responsibility as a society.  Even in a down economy like this one, college continues to have a multiply effect over the course of a lifetime of earnings.  But bearing the burden of debt without the diploma is the worst of all college prep worlds.  (I would argue that not having even a HS diploma is the hardest hurdle of all to clear.)

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by: GretchenLaskas @ Tue May 31, 2011 at 23:42:20 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

First of all, (0.00 / 0)

I would not depend upon Gates data about public schools when they have paid the data miners and "statisticians" to "find" evidence that the public school system "must" be dismantled.  I am really sick of the ditto-heads regurgitating Gates Foundation propaganda.  Bill and Melinda Gates and Eli Broad are on a mission to privatize public schools.  Everything they do is directed at this just as surely is the Peter Peterson effort to take down Social Security and Medicare.

Gates is just trying to buy a country's worth of influence, the rest of America's opinion be damned.

Save Our Schools.  Don't gut them and hand over their value and funding to privateers.

There's nothing in the middle of the road except yellow stripes and dead armadillos (Jim Hightower). PS I'm on Twitter here.

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by: KathyinBlacksburg @ Tue May 31, 2011 at 19:12:18 PM UTC

Sarah Palin Rhetoric doesn't solve anything (0.00 / 0)

    Your post requires a response. This isn't "Gates data", the fact about our community colleges is state data, developed after the study cited in my piece. The fact is a Virginia High School diploma doesn't prove what the state claims, this is not in dispute. Truth is the "Gates data" you claim isn't that at all, indeed it is not in dispute. What to do with it is the question.

    Accepting the truth about Virginia high school diploma's s not related to the conspiracy you claim exists, or those that don't.  

    If you think using Sarah Palin type whatever or calling people names makes your position more persuasive, then you are entitled to that belief.

    But it doesn't the fact nor actually help advance your position. The louder you shout a position doesn't increase it's credibility.

    Anyone can take the Sarah Palin approach and say whatever she wants, about whatever subject is raised, indeed say the same thing on all topics one way or another. It's a free country in that regard.

        There is no requirement that you respond to any of the points raised in any article when you comment, or anyone else's posts. At some point, however, the truth has to be addressed to maintain credibility.

    My article makes a basic point of some importance I would hope: namely, the state is misleading many high school students and their parents about the meaning of a diploma, a situation aided by a lot of people who should know better. This situation helps no one, but hurts tens of thousands of children especially the most vulnerable.  

     The state leadership may not care, indeed it nmight be naive of me to think anyone gives a damn.

     But that doesn't negate the truth of it.

     Nor the consequences.      

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by: Goldmanusa @ Tue May 31, 2011 at 22:39:42 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

How about sharing (0.00 / 0)

some of the data you mention? If you were making a fact-based argument to PolitiFact, what would those specifics be? Or have you already sent in this case and been rebuffed?

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by: listlady @ Wed Jun 01, 2011 at 00:05:25 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

WOW! (0.00 / 0)

I usually agree with your columns and when I have not I have usually said nothing. I agree with your main point here (and said as much in a reply to Gretchen's comment). In a portion of your blog, you did cite Gates Fundation data. I would have ignored your use of it had not a reader asked more info about the Gates study. And I found that missing the point and the Gates data therefore a distraction. It is troublesome that too few know what Gates is up to, including his kill-public education efforts. I would direct them to Kos and teacherken's diaries on the  subject, which are excellent.

I must say, however, that you accused me of name calling (which I did not in this thread) while name calling me.  It is obvious you are steamed at something else.  

In my own blogs, I have been angry at those trying to sell out children, seniors, workers,and the poor, especially while doing that with bogus "data" and sometimes outright lies. That is mostly the "leadership" of the GOP.  Occasionally, it is those bending over backwards to accommodate said GOP "leadership."  But that has never, ever been directed at you.  Nor would it be however I might disagree with you in an instance. And yet you suggest I just make stuff up. I do not.  And if I ever make a mistake, I correct it.  And so you owe me an apology.  But I doubt I will get it.

But I do not do screeds against BV writers or commenters and I will not.  You just did.

There's nothing in the middle of the road except yellow stripes and dead armadillos (Jim Hightower). PS I'm on Twitter here.

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by: KathyinBlacksburg @ Wed Jun 01, 2011 at 13:52:54 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I would add that (0.00 / 0)

It would be nice if you advised pols to  a) keep faith with Democratic principles, such as protecting the safety net from both cuts and privatization,  b) refrain from going on Republican-sponsored speaking assignments; c)  strongly  refute Republicans, and d) stop using the GOP frame for everything.   Turning your aim at lowly bloggers misses the point.  And it also just generally makes me want to blog more.  :-) I had not blogged that often lately and I held off for quite awile from criticizing one of our own side until the individual went quite far down the road to bending over backwards for a group backing the Tea Party.  And it is me you go off on? Comparing me w/ Palin?  Hahaha...  Nice touch, but it wont score you any success.   If you really want to win, why not advise Dems to be Dems?  It is a winning strategy, one which I would only be too happy to applaud.

There's nothing in the middle of the road except yellow stripes and dead armadillos (Jim Hightower). PS I'm on Twitter here.

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by: KathyinBlacksburg @ Wed Jun 01, 2011 at 22:33:42 PM UTC