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ADT Home Security in Virginia

Rename Tax Day: Call it "95% of Americans Celebrate Day"

by: KathyinBlacksburg

Thu Apr 15, 2010 at 20:45:13 PM EDT


Teabaggers, listen up.  It's not usually how you roll, but there is always a first time.  If you pay attention at last, you're in for a shock. You are celebrating with the wrong side.  The sad thing is you don't even know it.  Even generally conservative blogs such as Bacon's Rebellion have it correct.  But not the rest of you.  You should be celebrating that 95% of Americans got a tax break this year.  That's right, our taxes were cut. And there you go again, carrying on for nothing.  

Both our paychecks were reduced each week and the tables were reduced to allow further savings come tax Day (er, Celebrate with the 95% Day). So, celebrate, unless, that is you care more about the other 5%--or unless you prefer to serve as a useful pawn for Dick Armey, Peter Peterson and the big moneyed interests feeding their astro-turf groups.)
KathyinBlacksburg :: Rename Tax Day: Call it "95% of Americans Celebrate Day"
It's sad, really. Instead of working for your own, most Americans', and the country's interest, you work on behalf of Armey and Peterson (and the corporations who love them. What did they ever do for you, really? How does it feel to be ditto-heads in the Dick Armey and Peterson campaign to undermine your own financial security so corporate execs will be even richer.  Is that a cause to believe in?  Is it?

And, no you are not real Tea Partiers.  The original Tea Parties hold little similarity to your groups.  They were not against taxes.  They were opposed to taxation without representation. But what's a little revisionism?  

I call your attention to another diary on this site here. How's that for irony guys?  Mickey D. is raising taxes.  And he's doing it in a very sneaky way.  Kind of a paradigm buster, isn't it? Obama cut taxes for 95% of Americans.  And Bob McDonnell is going to raise them on the least well off (about the lower half of the economic scale).  WOW!  What a perfect metaphor for the differences between the two parties!.  
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Rename Tax Day: Call it "95% of Americans Celebrate Day" | 29 comments
I even heard (0.00 / 0)
a short announcement to this effect on WTOP today. Will wonders never cease! Of course, I also heard about Tea Partyers at another of their rallies, accompanied by Palin's really shrill voice. Pity they waste their whines on untruths and distortions when there is so much else they could be working on that really needs attention.

Where was the demonstration of the 95 percent?

Yeh, it (the voice) is like (0.00 / 0)
finger nails on a chalkboard.

There's nothing in the middle of the road except yellow stripes and dead armadillos (Jim Hightower). PS I'm on Twitter here.
[ Parent ]
And lest I forget, (0.00 / 0)
49% of Americans pay no taxes.  And yet some of them are yelping about taxes.  Some of them yelp about government programs, but are on Social Security and Medicare.  Some of them even yelp about government intruding into their lives and then they want the sex police in our bedrooms.  And some yelp about programs launched by Bush (whom they voted for).  Go figure.

There's nothing in the middle of the road except yellow stripes and dead armadillos (Jim Hightower). PS I'm on Twitter here.
Kathy (0.00 / 0)
The number of people that pay no Federal income taxes is 47%, but they do pay federal social security and other federal taxes and other state and local taxes. The number you refer to is a Republican talking point to rouse the well-to-do and middle class against the poor, disabled and minorities.
[ Parent ]
low-income workers... (0.00 / 0)
...get a better rate of return on the FICA taxes:
http://politicalcalculations.b...

It's still very bad even for low-income workers, no more than 5%, but less than 2% for high-income earners.

Certainly, everyone with a car pays the excise tax on gasoline, but if you go to the CBO website I posted, they do include estimates of those taxes also.  Those are the numbers we should be looking at, and not limiting ourselves to looking at income taxes.

[ Parent ]
Should haave said (0.00 / 0)
owed no income tax.  Of course they pay FICA, etc  

There's nothing in the middle of the road except yellow stripes and dead armadillos (Jim Hightower). PS I'm on Twitter here.
[ Parent ]
federal income tax (0.00 / 0)


There's nothing in the middle of the road except yellow stripes and dead armadillos (Jim Hightower). PS I'm on Twitter here.
[ Parent ]
Now it's the other way (0.00 / 0)
The problem is there's representation without taxation.

Then nearly have the country doesn't pay taxes, they naturally want more government programs, because it's coming out of someone else's pocket.

Not sure (0.00 / 0)
if the non-taxpayers are the only ones wanting government to do more, but without raising taxes, whoever pays. There seems to be a disconnect: folks do not seem to understand how government (or anything else) works. Of course, Bush (and Raegan) did practice borrow and spend not tax and spend, and this made it seem we could get everything on credit forever, and we (this generation) would not pay: it's free! Now, chickens are coming home to roost.

On the other hand, those non-tax payers really do pay taxes: sales taxes, real estate taxes, and so on, so I assume by non-tax payers you mean non-income tax payers?

Would you advocate everyone pay at least one dollar in income tax so they are, in a sense stake-holders?

[ Parent ]
No taxes (0.00 / 0)
Not to help tea partiers out but every time you say that "49% of Americans don't pay taxes" you aren't doing yourself any favors. Because while we can break that down to what it might actually mean (49% of Americans pay no federal income tax) that isn't what people hear or understand. So they will ALWAYS assume you are talking about some other person. Because most people don't break down sales tax, state tax, personal property tax, school tax, etc. They simply say "taxes".  And everybody pays them in some way.  
Those are state taxes (0.00 / 0)
"sales tax, state tax, personal property tax, school tax, etc."
[ Parent ]
I know (0.00 / 0)
You know. But does the average voter make that distinction or care that a distinction is being made?  So by reapeating that "49%" pay "no taxes" you only make it harder because every American immediately thinks what she paid buying groceries. Sure, you might be right technically, but as I tell my son, being right doesn't matter if you can't get your idea across.  Might be why only 18% of Americans identify with the Tea Party-- only a few less points than those who identify with the Republican party.

Just a thought  

[ Parent ]
If you don't want to take it from me.... (0.00 / 0)
 A Dissent on Taxes by  [Ramesh Ponnuru on the conservative blog NRO is a very thoughtful post on why the meme of "49% of Americans pay no taxes" is not helpful to Republicans. For instance, he points out that the largest number of people who pay no taxes are families taking advantage of the child tax credit. A lot of evangelical and Catholic families like that tax credit a great deal. It allows a mother to stay home with her children perhaps. Surely Republicans don't think that stay at home mothers aren't contributing to society, even if they don't pay taxes, do they?????  
[ Parent ]
I like it... (0.00 / 0)
So I'll make you a deal.  Those of us with kids give up our child tax credits, and in exchange you don't take our kids income to pay for your Social Security and Medicare when you get old.  
[ Parent ]
(grin) (0.00 / 0)
Jack, if you really want to run the next Republican campaign on taking away the child tax credit AND privitizing social security, be my guest!!  That would make my life as a Dem much easier!  ;)  

I believe you when you say this is bargain that you would gladly make.  I have other very principled and dedicated Republicans friends who would agree with you.  However, even within the Republican friends I have (which, granted, includes a lot of evangelicals and Catholics) the number is very small.  I think, on this issue, even within your own party, you're likely badly outnumbered.

[ Parent ]
I'm sure I am... (0.00 / 0)
...badly outnumbered.  But I do not have a political party.  I am a conservative, and opposed Bush's actions on many fronts -- immigration, NCLB, Medicare Part D, suspension of habeas corpus, etc.  I even thought McCain erred badly in chosing Palin for VP, unless, of course, he is getting a cut of her earnings, in which case I can only say, "Bravo."
[ Parent ]
As I clarified above (4.00 / 1)
I spoke of federal income tax, not all taxes.  There has been a tremendous cost-shifting toward the states and localities.  And that is where the real problem is for most Americans. The pressure is on homeowners, and even renters because property taxes become part of rents.  In fact, the constant tax-cutting is a problem. We are seeing the effects all over the country as the federal gov shifts burden to the states and the states to localities.   I pointed the specific fed income tax issue out to show inconsistency in the tea-ranters claims.  They say they pay too much federal income tax, except they don't. They pay less in real 2010 dollars than under Ronald Reagan. They rant about stuff made up by Glenn Beck, except none of it is true.  They serve as pawns for big corporations and claim they represent the little guy.  

They claim to be tea partiers, but they don't even understand what the original tea partiers were about.  And now (notice) one troll here shifts his position.  NOW (after I point this out) he tells us  that it's representation without taxation.  This would be pretty amusing were it not for the nastiness that they employ in attacking the President.  With respect to that, they have no shame.

And so the Tea-ranters cannot make up their minds.  They yell about too much federal taxation.  Then they falsely claim those on Soc Sec sponge, when FICA is separate and is paid by wage-earners disproportionately by those who make less(though high-end wage earners don't pay above the ceiling). Since the Tea-ranters are on average more affluent than the rest of America, they sponge on FICA more than the rest of us. The poor pay a higher proportion of their income in sales taxes.  And that's pretty regressive.

The affluent and corporations hold localities hostage.  The corporations extract a massive tax breaks either to locate or remain in localities (essentially extort freebies from localities).  This shifts all the local cost of local services to the homeowners.  Those right turn lanes and extra stop signals, utilities, and police protection add up. And when the freebies expire, the companies threaten to move (and often do).  Meanwhile, they use more than their share of local infrastructure funding.  Other projects don't get done.  Aging sewer lines in residential areas do not get replaced.  Roads crumble and get potholes.  (Cars' alignments gets destroyed, affecting those with little income disproportionately.  

The Bigs, such as EXXON and Koch who are behind a lot of this Tea-rant stuff don't want to pay their share either. And they do not want us to have anything at all, so, for example, they can worm out of their portion of the FICA tax.  Americans for Prosperity and Freedom Works are ramping up an effort to dump or privatize Social Security.  That too will hurt the average person a lot more than the Bigs, the right-wing Republicans behind the Tea-rants, or the Glenn Becks who are being paid to turn people out for these things.

The truth is that the tea-ranters are composed of roughly four groups: 1) those ultra-conservative GOPhers who are more well off than the rest of America; 2) Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh ditto-heads; 3) people who don't even know their Medicare is gubment health insurance; 4) those with one-foot in the radical militia movement.

And none of them seem to keep their stories straight.

There's nothing in the middle of the road except yellow stripes and dead armadillos (Jim Hightower). PS I'm on Twitter here.

[ Parent ]
Federal income taxes are at historic lows. (0.00 / 0)
The #1 thing they don't seem to understand. This isn't opinion, it's a fact.

Also note that top marginal tax rates are at their lowest points in decades.  So, with tax rates at historic lows, how are we "overtaxed" exactly? And why do Democrats keep playing into this meme with their pandering on "tax relief?"



Follow me on Twitter.

[ Parent ]
Gross Simplification (0.00 / 0)
The first plot looks at ONE instance -- the average for families of 4.  Better would be to look at that "total federal revenue (% of GDP)," which is an indicator of what we collectively pay in taxes compared to what we collectively earn.  That really has not changed since WWII.  What has changed is our federal outlays.

The Top Marginal Rate info comes with the following caveats:

Note: This table contains a number of simplifications and ignores a number of factors, such as a maximum tax on earned income of 50 percent when the top rate was 70 percent and the current increase in rates due to income-related reductions in value of itemized deductions. Perhaps most importantly, it ignores the large increase in percentage of returns that were subject to this top rate.

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org...

[ Parent ]
Cost shifting, FICA, etc... (0.00 / 0)
Cost shifting to States can be good or bad.  It does get the taxing closer to the voters, BUT the semi-funded mandates are a real problem.  The feds take the Medicare taxes, for instance, then agree to pay only HALF of the benefits, and the States have to pony up the rest.  If a State doesn't pony up, it gets NO federal funding for that program, but her citizens are still taxed for it.

I have yet to go to a TEA Party rally -- they're not my cup of tea.  :-)  Still, my  position has not changed on "representation without taxation."

I do agree with you to a certain extend on the concessions to corporations to locate in an area.  The question is, why do our lawmakers continue to make such concessions if there is no net benefit to the voters?

I have never known that companies can get out of their portion of the FICA tax.  How do they do that?

Privatizing Social Security would help high-income earners more than it would low-income earners.  Both get paltry rates of return now, but lower-income workers do, nominally, get a higher rate, so privatization would help the ligh-income workers more.  Moreover, high-income workers tend to know more about money and investing, and would probably get higher rates of return on private accounts.  This is well-documented in the research on IRA and 401(k) accounts. (See http://www.ebri.org/)  Finally, I think the rate of return for lower-income workers is overestimated, because they have shorter life-expectancies than higher-income workers, who will thus be collecting Social Security for a longer time.

OK, that wasn't "finally."  FINALLY, Social Security also includes disability insurance.  Lower-income workers, who are more likely to be in manual labor or "on-your-feet-all-day" kinds of work.  As such, they are more likely to spend a portion of their working life on disability.

[ Parent ]
Jack :For the record, do you favor privitizing social security? (0.00 / 0)

[ Parent ]
No. I favor eliminating it. (0.00 / 0)
The retirement portion is a Ponzi scheme, and it is falling apart.  I also think it is unconstitutional.  I have pointed out the flaw in the SC rulings elsewhere.

However, I recognize that Social Security will not go away.  That is the way of all social programs, as their designers intend -- get enough people dependent on the program, and it cannot be eliminated.

So how do we keep it from bankrupting the country?

It's quite simple actually.  Simply lock in the PERCENTAGE of people eligible, based on the census.  In the 2000 Census, for instance, about 15% of the people were over 65.  If the 2010 Census (out in 2011) tells us that the 15% line is 67, then the retirement age will rise to 65.2 in 2012, 65.4 in 2013, etc., until it is 67 in 2021, when the next census comes out.

We can do the same with Medicare, thus locking in the payer-beneficiary ratio.

Is there any reason the disability portion cannot be handled at the State level?

[ Parent ]
Jack is clearly a (0.00 / 0)
Republican (teabagger) mis-informationn and dis-information troll!
Then you will show us... (0.00 / 0)
...exactly what mis-information and dis-information I am posting, and show me up for what I am.  Since it is so clear to you, then doing so should not be difficult.
[ Parent ]
39 posts (and counting) in less than 2 days (4.00 / 1)
Started up April 14th @ 13:22 PM
Contributes to Brian's Too Conservative Blog
"Contributes" to BV at rate of 1 post per hour

1) Wrong on posts in Rich Anthony thread
2) Just stirring controversy on Trust Women thread -- no solutions
3) I carry guns comment on 2nd amendment thread
4) Unconstitutional, off topic suggestion on Mine Disaster thread
5) Characterizing Democratic initiatives as bad in Jim Moran thread
6) Wrong on 1Q10 thread re: VPAP.org
7) Miscellaneous unproductive banter

Others?

My suggestion to the blog: Limit known Republicans and Tea Partiers to a post limit per day, and require some kind of productiveness to the comments.  For example, "All Dem initiatives are bad" would not be a productive comment.  On the other hand, fact checking and respectful disagreement would be productive, as this site generates stories for use by the more mainstream media for the purpose of helping Democratic candidates.  

[ Parent ]
I agree on the post limit per day. (0.00 / 0)
In fact, taking over entire threads was a major part of the reason why at least one prolific commenter was banned recently.  Unfortunately, SoapBlox doesn't provide the option of limiting people with low "mojo" to a particular number of comments per day.  I also agree that comments should be factually accurate and respectful of other commenters and diarists. If not, just be aware that we may decide to delete the comments or ban. It's not for holding different ideas, it's for being disagreeable, obnoxious, rude, etc.  Same thing for Democrats, progressives, etc., by the way.  Finally, I encourage everyone to use - but not abuse - the community ratings system. For more on all this, the Daily Kos FAQ's are generally excellent. For instance, "Some posters create accounts at dkos strictly for the purpose of causing disruption. It is considered acceptable to hide all of the posts made by such people, even the ones that are not in and of themselves trollish."  Not that we have any of THOSE people here. :)


Follow me on Twitter.
[ Parent ]
Let's examine... (0.00 / 0)
1) Wrong on posts in Rich Anthony thread

Just go to the thread and read.  I quote the CBO and provided links to show that the candidate was wrong, and the response was an ad hominem attack against me.

2) Just stirring controversy on Trust Women thread -- no solutions

I provided a couple of solutions.  First, require INFORMED consent via 3D sonogram and being shown an aborted baby at that stage of development, then a 24-hour waiting period.  Second, make abortion illegal again.  (I never said that any of my solutions would pass.)

3) I carry guns comment on 2nd amendment thread

So what?

4) Unconstitutional, off topic suggestion on Mine Disaster thread

Possibly unconstitutional, but since there are already contribution limits for federal elections, and since my proposal does not prevent corporations, PACs, unions from putting out their own stuff, I don't see how it is unconstitutional.

5) Characterizing Democratic initiatives as bad in Jim Moran thread

I was commenting that Moran chastened Wolf for not supporting a balanced budget, while the democrat running for that office is proposing spending even MORE money.

6) Wrong on 1Q10 thread re: VPAP.org

You got me there.  They just do Virginia.  It is still a good site for VA info.

7) Miscellaneous unproductive banter

Like your ad hominem attacks?

[ Parent ]
Kathy--I should have listened n/t (0.00 / 0)

[ Parent ]
:-) (0.00 / 0)
It's OK, WestEndVoter....


There's nothing in the middle of the road except yellow stripes and dead armadillos (Jim Hightower). PS I'm on Twitter here.
[ Parent ]
Rename Tax Day: Call it "95% of Americans Celebrate Day" | 29 comments
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