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Mark Warner Equates "Super-left" "MoveOn Crowd" and "Tea Party Crowd"

by: lowkell

Mon Nov 08, 2010 at 19:12:26 PM EST



According to Mark Warner:
...there are a lot of folks I think on both sides, but the question will be will the super-left on my party - the MoveOn crowd in my party - and the Tea Party crowd on the other party, you know, they don't compromise, so you know, I for one am...you know, there were too many times I bit my lip in the first year, or bit my tongue...I'm done...
I know that Mark Warner likes playing the "radical centrist" (no clue what it means, never defined, but you get the idea) and placing himself in the square middle between the "extremes" on the right and the left, but I'm not sure his equating of MoveOn and the Tea Party will go over too well among the Democratic "base." It will be very interesting to see the reaction, if any, to these comments.

UPDATE: Another example of Warner's anti-liberal rhetoric is on the "flip."

UPDATE #2: MoveOn hits back:

Democrats just lost an election where much of the base didn't turn out, and voters felt like Democrats weren't on their side," responded MoveOn Executive Director Justin Ruben in a statement to The Huffington Post. "Senator Warner's response is to falsely equate 5 million MoveOn members, including over 102,000 in Virginia -- people from all walks of life who worked tirelessly for Democrats in Virginia and all across the country -- with the racist and xenophobic far-right wing of the Republican Party. If Mark Warner's recipe for victory is to attack the core of supporters still willing to back Democrats, and to promise more deals with corporate Republicans, anyone who cares about progress should look elsewhere for leadership."
lowkell :: Mark Warner Equates "Super-left" "MoveOn Crowd" and "Tea Party Crowd"
Remember this?
And third is, I would say to some of our more liberal Democrats in the room, there is an acknowledgment that you can't have this purist approach. That this is not going to be totally solved by some airy dream of it's just gonna be all solar and wind, that nuclear has to be a piece of this, that coal has to be a piece of this, that there's gonna be a portfolio approach. And I think those three factors make the possibilities of some action on this area on a national basis much higher than it was, say, six months ago.

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moveon doesn't compromise? (0.00 / 0)
Does he have any idea why they are named moveon? It's because they were founded around the idea of censuring President Clinton and moving, which would have been a pretty big compromise.

Socially, Politically, and Culturally Conscious Media - Sum of Change

Maybe he should have bitten his lip today! (0.00 / 0)


I have to do this... (0.00 / 0)
Sorry, can't resist.  Senator, this is for you:

http://www.maximumdonline.com/...


[ Parent ]
One Observation (0.00 / 0)
My step-son, a quite wealthy sort of Republican/Independent, has a conversation with me following the election last week. He lives in Illinois and told me that he had voted for either Green or Libertarian candidates for all positions in that state. When I pointed out the obvious contradiction in those two positions, he simply said that he could not bring himself to vote for any of the two major party candidates.

He also told me that he and a group of his fellow investor class friends had recently talked about how the country needed a "business" presidential candidate in 2012. He not only mentioned Mitt Romney (R) but also Mark Warner (D).

Am I surprised by Warner's comments? Nope. He is the quintessential "DLC," "I wish I could be a Rockefeller Republican" kind of guy. I can't fathom that sort of political philosophy, but it obviously plays really well in Virginia since he is the most popular state politician in my lifetime.

Another anecdote, if you will indulge me. My husband - back during the time Warner was head of the DPVA - had helped to form a progressive Democratic coalition of labor, minorities, and progressive people in the Roanoke Valley. He was told by Mark Warner that the group was "divisive" and not deserving of regular party support.

So, am I surprised by Warner's comments? Nope. He is business first, business second, business last. Yes, he has a "D" after his name and I would vote for him again, but he is not progressive in ant stretch of the imagination.


I'll add another Warner anecdote (0.00 / 0)
if I may.

In '06, some well-to-do Dems and newly-converted Repubs in my town invited Jim Webb to come and present himself to potential voters. A mini-rally on the green for everyone, followed by a ticket-only fundraiser in a private house. $100 got me and my husband in, and I had a chance to talk to Webb, whom I had heard -- from some distance -- only once before.

About 2 weeks ago, my husband and I got a pretty fancy piece of s-mail: an invitation to a fundraiser for Mark Warner. $250 for a single ticket. I guess Warner likes to sift the wheat from the chaff early on, and shows up only when the stakes are worth his attention.

There are some very good reasons why my husband refers to Webb as "your favourite Senator" and to Warner as "your other Senator" and Warner's arrogance is one of them. Like Elaine, I'll vote for Warner in '14 (esp if no better Dem offers), but that's as far as I'm willing to go.

PS If he thinks MoveOn is some wild-eyed fringe organisation, a la the Tea crowd (for they're neither a party nor a true movement) except on the left, then he's even worse than I'd thought


[ Parent ]
Memo to Mark Warner: (3.75 / 4)
Senator:

I am 66 years old.  Born in SW Mississippi, great-great-grandson of a slave owner.  As a college student in Alabama in the '60's I marched with MLK in Selma, Montgomery, and Birmingham.  In '64 I was the only person in Alabama with a "Johnson-Humphrey" bumper sticker on his old VW Beetle.  I'm a retired Army officer and a Vietnam veteran.  I'm a lifelong Democrat and about as far left as you can get.

And you're telling me I am the same as the Teahadists?

Guess how many fingers I'm holding up in your direction.  And guess how many votes and $$ you'll get from me in your next campaign.

Regards,
The Old Redneck


Bite his lip? (0.00 / 0)
I got something here he can bite.

He's on his way to losing next time... (4.00 / 3)
If a group founded to defend DLC Democrat Bill Clinton from removal from office is too "left" for Mark Warner, if a group which supported Al Gore and Barack Obama (both barely left of center) is, then he is in the wrong party. This is the very kind of despicably, unfair false equivalence I wrote about the other day.  It was a hateful, defamatory thing to say, which was designed to shore him up with Republicans.  And if he is going down the road of base-abuse, which this statement surely is, then he will deserve to lose.  And he will.


There's nothing in the middle of the road except yellow stripes and dead armadillos (Jim Hightower). PS I'm on Twitter here.

He is clearly (0.00 / 0)
also on his way to selling us out on major programs and issues Democrats value.  He already has, but listen to his words in this...He's ready to do major damage to the Democratic agenda under the guise of fiscal responsibility. Notice also in this comment he's given a hint of reluctance to put the more-than-bloated Pentagon budget on the table either, as if wasting the money it wastes on endless wars --making us less safe--is the way to go.  


There's nothing in the middle of the road except yellow stripes and dead armadillos (Jim Hightower). PS I'm on Twitter here.

[ Parent ]
a sad statement but confirms what I feared (0.00 / 0)
Mark Warner is a DINO

[ Parent ]
Meaningless (0.00 / 0)
Who is part of MoveOn.org, and what does that mean?  Because they have my email address and send me emails, does that make me a part of it?  (I also receive plenty of e-mails from Republicans, including one tea party group.  I do this because I like to be in the know.)

That is the point.. (0.00 / 0)
Gretchen, probably  a majority of active Dems have gotten emails, responded to a petition, or even made a small donation at some point, or gone to an event put on by the organization.  It's a mainstream Democratic group. When no one would speak out against Bush's war based upon lies or encroachments into the constitution, move-on sponsored three events at which AlGore spoke on the impending war, the constitution, and security. Except for CSpan, the media ignored the talks.  But they were Al Gore's finest hour.

But the org is  apparently is too "left" for Warner, who sounds more and more like just one more anti-citizen/corporate blank check  radical Republican.  If he rips Move-On, then he is disavowing the Democratic base almost in it's entirety.  So he can have fun earning votes from an increasingly radicalized GOP.  

There's nothing in the middle of the road except yellow stripes and dead armadillos (Jim Hightower). PS I'm on Twitter here.


[ Parent ]
Would someone please primary this pompous jackass, please? (4.00 / 2)

Prince Mark continues his defense of his corporate overlords.

If he's ashamed of the base of the party that elected him, maybe he needs to run as the senator from United Healthcare or the prince from Goldman Sachs. That's what he really is anyway.


One of the diffs between Dems and Repubs... (4.00 / 1)
...is that Repubs usually don't diss their base (even when they've gone miles off the deep end).  As a result, they are masters at pulling together center-right electoral coalitions.

Meanwhile, among the Dems, the lefties and the centries spend so much time attacking each other that they don't notice how many elections we're busy losing.  We could never get to 50%+1 with just the left or the center. We need both.

If Warner thinks that he can win on a base of centrists while blowing off progressives, he needs to look to history -- the center is rarely a stable base. As Jim Hightower used to say, ain't nothin' in the middle of the road but dead armadillos...

Impeachinelli! Now on Twitter.


Thanks, kindler you are awesome... (0.00 / 0)
And a hat tip to you because you reminded me of the hightower quote, now my new signature tag line. See below.  

There's nothing in the middle of the road except yellow stripes and dead armadillos (Jim Hightower). PS I'm on Twitter here.

[ Parent ]
I also really (0.00 / 0)
Like your tag line.  Very concise too!

There's nothing in the middle of the road except yellow stripes and dead armadillos (Jim Hightower). PS I'm on Twitter here.

[ Parent ]
Well, thanks for that, and also for getting the quote right (0.00 / 0)
I was too lazy to look it up tonight... ;-)

Impeachinelli! Now on Twitter.

[ Parent ]
The problem (0.00 / 0)
If Warner or anyone else thinks that MoveOn is "The Super Left", then I am real curious as to what they think the actual Socialists and Communists who descended upon One Nation are.

Seriously, the people of this country by and large have not seen a damn thing that looks anything like "Super Left" except on the fringes.

I consider myself pretty far to the left compared to, say, wannabe-centrist do-nothings like soon-to-be-ex-Rep Glenn Nye, but I read the Socialist literature and I thought it was stupid.

So, anyway. I heard rumors that Warner might not even run for re-election in 2014 because he apparently doesn't like the Senate too much. If this is how he's going to treat his base, then good riddance to him too.

It is one thing to not vote or behave quite as far to the left as I want someone to be. It is quite another to actively say and/or do stupid things that make the only people who will always vote for you not want to vote for you anymore.


I, too, (0.00 / 0)
heard he doesn't like the Senate. The way I heard it, it's because he's used to being an executive, not a 100th cog in a bigger machine, where his voice doesn't count for as much. He'd tried to carve out a bigger niche for himself by acting like the Cornhusker Nelson and several other "lick my boots and I'll think about dropping some crumbs for you" Senators, but didn't have enough seniority to pull it off successfully. And, unlike Webb, he didn't have the appetite for working hard on smaller "stuff", being unsung and barely noticed. So, he's pissed off.

To be sure, so am I. With him :)  


[ Parent ]
A note to Sen. Warner (4.00 / 4)
I don't know anyone at Move On, or other progessive activists who call for "second amendment remedies" if we don't get our way at the polls.  I don't see anyone on the left strapping loaded guns to their waists, legs or hips and protesting at Presidential events.  I don't see anyone on the left knocking someone to the ground and stomping on their head because we don't agree with their point of view.  I don't see anyone on the left falsely arresting reporters.  I don't see anyone on the left giving concession speeches while swinging a baseball bat.  Senator Warner, you owe the Democrats in Virginia who have supported you for many years an apology.

Tha's exactly right--an apology would do! (0.00 / 0)
Warner is in such a bubble and so arrogant an apology is just not likely, but these posts show how tenuous Warner's support among the "radical-libs", who are the spine guts and brain of the Democratic Party, really is.
Corporate Dems like Warner should be more isolated in the new Senate and I think that's good! Maybe he and Joe Manchin will become Rethugs?

The posters on this topic so far (0.00 / 0)
have done a great job proving Mark's point.  To a teabagger, anyone who isn't a pure conservative is a RINO and should be punished.  To a lot of liberal Dems, anyone who isn't a pure liberal is a DINO and should be punished.  While I agree with a good amount of the liberal agenda, and while I disagree with about 99.99% of the teabagger agenda, both sides are fairly extreme vis-a-vis your average voter.  That's my view, and it seems to be Mark's.  I would say there's more pragmatism on the part of liberals than conservatives, but so many liberal Dems do sound exactly like they're teabagger or christian conservative opposites.  
"He's unpure, he's not a real Dem/real Republican, screw him, I won't vote for him or give him money, he's not worthy of my adoration"

Now, I do disagree with his assumption on MoveOn.  They are fairly Democratic mainstream, but again, viewing his comments in context, he was just using that as an example.  Not unlike what the White House said about the liberal left causing issues.  You guys throw a lot more elbows than you think, yet get highly offended whenever a Dem says you need to reign it in a bit - or critiques your critiques.  


I think you are mistaken (0.00 / 0)
Mark Warner has insulted most active Democrats. That is what people are reacting to. If we were purists, we wouldn't have voted or worked, as the case may be, for Warner's campaign to get him elected in the first place. Hey, if we were purists, many here wouldn't even be Democrats; most of us would be Green Party activists.

I am a very liberal Democrat, and I am still supporting the president, who, really, is way conservative, but that is okay with me because he is sane.

I wish that Warner were more progressive and threw some bone to the base once in a while, but overall I am okay with him as our senator. Again, he may be conservative, but he is sane.

How is that the same as being like the tea party?


[ Parent ]
If you think most Dems would be Green Party activists (0.00 / 0)
then again, you're backing up what Mark said.  While every Dem I know is pro-environment, most aren't advocating banning coal and SUVs and all of the stuff that goes along with being a Green.  You're again picking the far end of the ideological spectrum as the goal.  It's not.

[ Parent ]
Please don't miss my point (0.00 / 0)
My point is that would be the case if we were really as intransigent as Mark Warner is picturing us. We are not. That is why we are in the Democratic Party and why we support candidates with whom we disagree.

And if anything, we may be too tolerant to the point where we have spoiled our elected representatives. :)


[ Parent ]
We certainly are far more tolerant (4.00 / 1)
than the right wing of the Republican Party - those people will drum you out as a "RINO" if you're slightly to the left of Attila the Hun and Genghis Khan!

Follow me on Twitter.

[ Parent ]
That's utterly ridiculous. (4.00 / 1)
Over the years, we have worked for MANY Democrats who aren't "pure" by any means.  In fact, it's hard to think of any who ARE "pure" - whatever that means. For instance, I cofounded a movement to "draft" Jim Webb, a former Reagan Navy Secretary and former Republican who was about as far from a "pure" progressive as you can get.  I then quit my secure, GS-15 federal government job to go work for his campaign, where I made $2,500 a month for 6 months. Wooh-hoo! :)  Since then, I worked for the South Dakota Democratic Party, helping to reelect two moderate-to-conservative Democrats, Tim Johnson and Stephanie Herseth Sandlin.  I also worked hard to try and elect Creigh Deeds, both in 2005 and 2009.  Speaking of 2005, you might recall that I worked that year to elect a moderate-to-conservative Democrat named "Tim Kaine."  You also may recall that in 2008, I was invited on Mark Warner's campaign kickoff "flyaround," and that Mark Warner was a "sponsor" of my blog. But then again, you know how it works with us "purists," we're sneaky like that. :)  In all seriousness, though, your comment couldn't be more wrong. The fact is, I'm not even a huge fan of MoveOn, but that was just a really stupid comment by Mark Warner, and part of a long pattern in which he sets up straw men and poses false equivalences between the far right (e.g., the Tea Party) and mainstream liberals.  Fine, if he wants to compare the Tea party to International ANSWER or some other truly far-left group, but that is NOT what he did.  Warner also has a terrible habit of lumping environmentalists into the "far to the left" camp.  I understand this is his shtick, but I don't have to like it, nor should any progressive, environmentalist, MoveOn member, or Democrat for that matter.  

Follow me on Twitter.

[ Parent ]
Thanks , Lowell. (0.00 / 0)
BTW the story has gone national, which I believe was Warner's plan.  I think he is going to primary Barack Obama.  And he is positioning himself  to the "right" if the president.

There's nothing in the middle of the road except yellow stripes and dead armadillos (Jim Hightower). PS I'm on Twitter here.

[ Parent ]
Seriously (0.00 / 0)
no one is going to primary a sitting President.  That would be the ultimate way to waste hundreds of millions of dollars while at the same time handing over the Presidency and the Senate to the Republicans on a platter.

[ Parent ]
Huh? (4.00 / 1)
Teddy Kennedy in 1980.
Ronald Reagan in 1976.

Then it gets a little harder -- Pete McCloskey in 1972.

Eugene McCarthy in 1968.

You're right that it hasn't happened in a while, though.


[ Parent ]
Your examples (0.00 / 0)
Lets see -

Kennedy in 80 - it really ended up screwing Carter's reelection campaign, though it was probably already screwed all it needed to be.  Result - Republican landslide, Reagan becomes the Republican ideal.

Reagan in 76 - I don't think Ford stood a chance, but being primaried didn't help his case.  Result - Democratic victory.

McCloskey in 72 - more of a protest, he got a single delegate in the end.  Not much of an example, but technically he did primary Nixon.

McCarthy in 68 - To me, the words "Eugene McCarthy" equal "Republican landslide against Democratic wimp".  He didn't do much except to help usher in Nixon.  Result - Republican victory and helped usher in the Republican Southern Strategy which is still bringing home Republican wins today.

So, to primary a sitting President up for re-election tends to do two things.  If the primary opponent has any juice, it guarantee a victory for the other side.  If not, they're dismissed as a nutbar and life goes on.


[ Parent ]
Nixon didn't win by a landslide in '68. It was pretty close and if Humphrey had another week (0.00 / 0)
he would have won.  If Johnson had let Humphrey criticize the war earlier, Humphrey would have won.  

[ Parent ]
That isn't true... (0.00 / 0)
Eugene McCarthy didn't cost the election.  Hubert Humphrey did.  He wanted to be president so badly he sacrificed all his principles.  He ended up standing for nothing. Johnson had lied us into war.  We had half a million young men in VietNam, with tens of thousands of deaths on our side (about a million on the other).  And he had, almost nothing to say re  the firebombing our side was doing w/ out justification.  He sat and smiled as an out-of-control Chicago police dept rioted and bashed the heads of peaceful protesters outside.  He and the first Mayor Daley were jointly perceived as responsible for the chaos.  One other big reason we lost--Bobby was killed.  I held my nose and voted for Humprey because Nixon was so odious.  But it is not surprising that many of my generation stayed home.  Kinda like this year. I disagree with staying home, but I understand it, to a point.

 

There's nothing in the middle of the road except yellow stripes and dead armadillos (Jim Hightower). PS I'm on Twitter here.


[ Parent ]
Ok (4.00 / 1)
but other than perhaps picking a slightly wrong target in MoveOn, did Mark say anything that he hasn't said multiple times before over the last 10-15 years?  Again, he's never run as a progressive, has never given any indication that he is one.  Name me the last liberal, progressive Dem who won statewide office in Virginia, and then argue as to how they won.  I can't think of any.  Chuck Robb?  No. Gerald Baliles?  Nope.  Doug Wilder?  Nope.  Mark Warner as governor?  Not at all.  Tim Kaine?  No.  Jim Webb?  Not even close.  Don Beyer?  Possibly, but he was number 2 on the ticket both times he won.  Mary Sue Terry?  Possibly, when AG, but then again, a progressive 20 years ago would be a centrist today.

I just think that you guys are really, really making a giant fuss on this.  We're all pissed off at the results last week, where we lost a lot of good Dems because a lot of Dems didn't come out to vote.  You can certainly argue - and I would agree with you - that a lot of Dems lost because they didn't embrace party principles, support our President and shout for all to hear what Democrats stand for and the good that we've done.  But in reading and re-reading Mark's comments, my conclusion remains the same - it was a call for pragmatism, to not act like a liberal version of the teabaggers where it's "our way or the highway".  Let the Republicans continue to tear themselves apart with the teabaggers fighting with the rich business overlords who bought this past election.  Those two groups, along with the religious nutbars, make a Triangle from Hell and I for one am looking forward to Boehner and Cantor and McConnell trying to keep those groups from killing each other over the next two years.  


[ Parent ]
I'm "making a fuss about this" (4.00 / 2)
because I am sick and tired of people in our own party buying into Republican framing and talking points, dissing their own base, legitimizing absurd false equivalencies, putting up liberal and environmentalist straw men to knock down, acting as if there's no difference between progressives/liberals and the Teahadists, etc., etc. I've been sick of this crap for a long time, but this one really hit a raw nerve coming when it did.  Mark Warner really f***ed up on this one, sorry if you don't like hearing that but it's the way I see it.  

Follow me on Twitter.

[ Parent ]
Hear! Hear! (4.00 / 1)


There's nothing in the middle of the road except yellow stripes and dead armadillos (Jim Hightower). PS I'm on Twitter here.

[ Parent ]
Lowell, you just don't get it. (snark alert) DPVA exists to re-elect anyone who claims the Democratic label. (4.00 / 3)
We proles are never allowed to criticize, disagree or advocate for any position that hasn't been pre-approved by our incumbent betters.

Those of us who aren't incumbent elected officials are all naive fools who have no understanding of the fine nuances and complex intricacies of the politics and policy implications of these esoteric subjects.

Now just sit in the corner and eat your gruel and be happy for it.  When Prince Mark needs you to do a lit drop or a phone bank, one of his lower level minions will call you.  Until then, try very hard to be not seen and definitely not heard because you're bothering the grown-ups.


[ Parent ]
Good point. (4.00 / 1)
I will try to be more obedient and subservient in the future.  On second thought, f*** that!  

Follow me on Twitter.

[ Parent ]
We are about to be screwed by 2 more blue dogs (4.00 / 2)
Bayh and Conrad are joining w/ Pete Peterson in a 20 million dollar ad campaign to destroy Social Security.  W/ states gutting public pensions and private pensions under assault, Soc Sec is more essential than ever.  This is betrayal.  Good riddance to Bayh in the Senate.  But you knew he'd do something despicable in his greedy retirement. He influenced in a negative way health insurance reform despite his wife's position at a major insurer. Or rather because of her.  What a guy.    

There's nothing in the middle of the road except yellow stripes and dead armadillos (Jim Hightower). PS I'm on Twitter here.

[ Parent ]
Yeah, isn't that crazy? (0.00 / 0)
The right and their enablers are actually gunning against social security, the third rail. I thought social security is something that we didn't have to fight for.

[ Parent ]
I agree with the spirit of your comment (0.00 / 0)
Yes, pragmatism is good. I believe most Democrats are  pragmatic. I agree with that point that you are making; Democrats shouldn't begin on purity purges.

And that is why Warner's comments hurt. Because after years of pragmatism, one gets compared with a bunch of lunatics.  


[ Parent ]
You got it, Hugo (0.00 / 0)
That is the heart of the problem.  We get little for our effort but we keep rolling up our sleeves and trying again.  And then public insult and defamation is our "reward ". I do not understand how Warner was successful in business because he knows nothing about motivation.  With volunteers you do not have the luxury of shitting on them. At some point the pragmatism--and the hope--dies.

There's nothing in the middle of the road except yellow stripes and dead armadillos (Jim Hightower). PS I'm on Twitter here.

[ Parent ]
Are you forgetting something? (1.00 / 1)
Not a single one of those Democrats would throw another Democrat under the bus like you do.

And Mark Warner is wrong to have pointed that out?


[ Parent ]
That's not accurate.. (0.00 / 0)
Warner threw us under the bus.  Us as in the entire Democratic base.  So, fine, he has to live with doing that.  

There's nothing in the middle of the road except yellow stripes and dead armadillos (Jim Hightower). PS I'm on Twitter here.

[ Parent ]
Warner on "Morning Joe" (0.00 / 0)


Follow me on Twitter.

Would that he found someone better (0.00 / 0)
to work with than Saxby Chambliss.  With a partner like that, no good can come...


There's nothing in the middle of the road except yellow stripes and dead armadillos (Jim Hightower). PS I'm on Twitter here.

[ Parent ]
Agreed. Saxby Chambliss is heinous. (0.00 / 0)
Remember this?



Follow me on Twitter.


[ Parent ]
I remember, and (0.00 / 0)
I remember the whole sordid campaign this guy ran against Cleland.  It is so revealing that Warner has kind words for this guy but royally slams progressives.  

Someone further up the thread claimed we are throwing a pol under the bus here.  No, he threw ALL of us under it.  And we are registering our displeasure with him for doing so, along with some justifiable outrage that he can make nice with the likes of Chambliss, but not his own party. He takes gratuitous swipes at his "base."  And he assumes we will always be so.  But he ought not to take us for granted.  

There's nothing in the middle of the road except yellow stripes and dead armadillos (Jim Hightower). PS I'm on Twitter here.


[ Parent ]
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